Transcript - S3 Ep1: The Composers
[MUSIC – “EÖL” BY ANN CLEARE]
Ann Cleare:
I really… well, I guess I was going to say I really love beginnings and I do, [laughs] but um, I also feel a bit like there are two beginnings to most pieces, in the sense of this beginning that I'm at at the moment, where everything is possible and it's very, lots of dreaming and imagining. And then there's kind of the next beginning, which is where you've kind of decided what you're going to write, and that’s a bit scarier. That stage is really hard. And then there’s the kind of reality that hits of that beginning. It's kind of more like, “okay, how am I going to do this?”
Intro:
This is Mission: Commission [intro]
Melissa Smey:
This is Mission: Commission, a podcast where we demystify the process of how classical music gets made. I’m your host, Melissa Smey, and I’m the Artistic Director of Miller Theatre at Columbia University in New York City.
This is our third and final season of the show. If you’ve been a listener all along, thank you for following this journey. And if this your first time listening to the podcast - welcome.
On this show, I commissioned three composers to write new works of classical music - and to do it in just 6 weeks. And every week you’ll hear how that creative journey unfolds through my conversations with the composers, and their own audio diaries of the process.
We’ll try to unpack their creative process in real time. I always want to know - why this, not that? What matters more, or less? Follow along on this journey, as we hear how the very first tentative ideas and notes grow and evolve into vibrant new works of classical music.
Our season will end with the pieces they composed. You can listen right here on the podcast, and if you’re in New York City, you can also hear their music performed live at Miller Theatre. Stay tuned for more details on that.
On this season of the show, we’ve commissioned Ann Cleare—
Ann Cleare:
“I work a lot with environmental sound, and it doesn't fit into this very neat system like tonality. It's so wild and anarchic, and you have to allow it to be that way.”
Melissa Smey:
Miguel Zenón—
Miguel Zenón:
“The way I would describe it is, like, when you think about rhythm and you think about rhythmic layers, and the tension that’s created when you put a layer against each other. For me, I like that tension to create a groove.”
Melissa Smey:
and Wang Lu—
Wang Lu:
“As a composer, I cannot sit down, write music, and completely erase my real life. To reflect my mental place, and emotional place into the musical writing is part of the job.”
Melissa Smey:
And this season all three composers will be writing music for “Piano + 1.” At Miller Theatre, we commission new music by world-class composers. Music that brings joy and a spirit of connection to listeners. And that's at the very heart of my practice as a curator. This is a mission to discover illuminating and personal moments beyond our concert stage in New York and into your ears wherever you are.
So let’s get started on that journey with our first composer, Ann Cleare, whose voice you heard at the start of this episode.
Ann is an artist and composer from Ireland. I remember the first time I heard a live performance of Ann’s music, and I was blown away by her ability to conjure alternate sound worlds. It opens your ears to new ways of listening, and maybe even to new ways of thinking about music.
She's working on a piece for two pianos, for Laura Barger and Julia Den Boer, who are half of the New York based piano and percussion quartet Yarn/Wire.
I want you to listen to two pieces from Ann. This first one is called I should live in wires for leaving you behind – a piece she wrote for Yarn/Wire.
[MUSIC – “I SHOULD LIVE IN WIRES FOR LEAVING YOU BEHIND” BY ANN CLEARE]
It starts with just a tiny hint of resonance, then expands rapidly into something more.
[MUSIC CONT. – “I SHOULD LIVE IN WIRES FOR LEAVING YOU BEHIND” BY ANN CLEARE]
Snaking plastic and metallic sounds and the percussive thump of the piano. It's beautifully orchestrated.
[MUSIC CONT. – “I SHOULD LIVE IN WIRES FOR LEAVING YOU BEHIND” BY ANN CLEARE]
There's ringing bowls, the inside strings of the piano, and different kinds of percussive elements, scraping and tapping and moving along. There's something beautifully theatrical about how these sounds are being made.
Ann also composed this piece called I am not a clockmaker either for keyboard instruments and electronics.
Ann describes it as taking the pieces of a broken egg and gluing them back together in such a way that the original oval shape is hardly recognizable.
[MUSIC – “I AM NOT A CLOCKMAKER EITHER” BY ANN CLEARE]
At first listen, I feel like this is a puzzle. What am I listening to? And you hear what seems to be a wall of sound, like being dropped into an unfamiliar universe and trying to navigate it.
[MUSIC CONT. – “I AM NOT A CLOCKMAKER EITHER” BY ANN CLEARE]
So, one way to decode the puzzle is by demystifying and illuminating Ann's process. Let's start to do just that.
Hello Ann! Welcome to Mission Commission.
Ann Cleare:
Thank you, Melissa.
Melissa Smey:
Well, so I'm curious, have you made a start yet? And, and what does it look like for you right now?
Ann Cleare:
I have, I guess in a sense of, the instrumentation is really exciting for me because I so rarely get to write for two of the same instrument. You know, even today I was doing a bit of work on it, just kind of conceptually and thinking a bit about material. And I was almost like, already I've way too many ideas. [laughs] I'm a bit like that with pieces in general in the beginning. I dream a lot and I think of everything that's possible. And that's such a nice stage in the creative process. And then I kind of zone in on something. Yeah, I'm going to I guess with the timeframe frame in this project, I'm going to have to zone in quite soon. And that's where it'll probably become more difficult, I'm sure.
Melissa Smey:
I was curious to ask you about that – the kind of, the particular challenges with a project like this one where we have a defined timeframe of six weeks, which I imagine is shorter than the normal timeframe that many composers are working with. So I'm curious, do you have a sense yet of how you will approach those challenges?
Ann Cleare:
I think it's really important when you're working on a new piece to be really thoughtful around duration and around what you can really achieve in a certain amount of time, like the duration of a piece. And recently I've been working on a lot of larger scale pieces and it's really nice to do something more compact. I find it actually really healthy for my practice in general to make my mind have to kind of think in a different kind of timeframe, a different duration. Yeah, I think the timing, even though it is different, as you say, I think it will hopefully be a productive and kind of fruitful few weeks.
Melissa Smey:
I sure hope so. So can you tell me a little bit about the idea of kind of the idea of being a composer, capital C “Composer” – what does that mean? It can be such a complicated thing for people. I'm curious for you, the idea of sharing your process and what it means to be a composer.
Ann Cleare:
It often feels to me quite like a heavy word in, especially in terms of process, because you know, the going to music schools, music education, you know, the canon looms so heavy in a way and the musical techniques of the past. You know, I've tried, I suppose, to really build my own practice and my own kind of process to make pieces. I say I've tried – I've tried because I guess I've imagined pieces that have needed me to work in different ways than what you might learn, in traditional practice of classical music. But because these techniques – say like the fugue, and all kinds of counterpoint, you know, they're really, they're held up as these treasured, very intellectual objects — you can feel quite inferior around them, I think. When you think of your little self trying to make this piece and your practice is completely different – like you know, as I mentioned, I work a lot with recording environmental sound and noise really – it doesn't fit into this very neat system like tonality. It's so wild and a kind of anarchic and you have to kind of allow it to be that way as well.
And it's so different to how neatly tonality can often work and how we're taught it works in music theory classes. So I think it can be really… it can be hard as a composer working today, I think, to share your process when it's so different to Western classical music. But I also think it's really important to share it because this is the only way that I think as composers we can – the word can keep growing in terms of what it means and what it can contain.
Melissa Smey:
Amen to that. Well, so could you tell me a little bit about, kind of maybe in broad strokes, a little bit about your creative practice? Like what does it look like for you? Nurturing a practice where you are composing a wide range of music, you're also teaching. Can you tell us some insights into that?
Ann Cleare:
I think with most pieces, I'm really kind of, I suppose, quite conceptual in a way, which I think often surprises people when they hear my music.
[MUSIC – “EÖL” BY ANN CLEARE]
They think – because it's so kind of timbrely explorative – they really think, “Oh, well, it must be immediately sound that draws you into an idea. “
[MUSIC CONT. – “EÖL” BY ANN CLEARE]
But, to be honest, it rarely is. I generally have to have almost like a kind of—it's really non-musical idea, quite narrative in a way, to really write a piece because most of the time, the sound is really a way of communicating what I feel about this idea. And I feel like sound is the best medium for that, but if I don't have a reason for the sound, the sound doesn't come either. And once I kind of find, something that I'm kind of drawn to, then I start to think about, okay, well how can I express that in sound in music? And then I start to improvise generally, and I guess I improvise in all kinds of ways, like whether it's with instruments I have that might be in the piece or maybe not in the piece, sometimes. And then I do a lot of recording as well.
[AUDIO DIARY – TREE FIELD RECORDING]
So there can be a lot of field recording involved… and I start to analyze it… and from there, when I feel like, “Okay, I have some sonic material that really connects well to the concept,” I start to move into building the form of the piece, and thinking – because I find it really hard to fully kind of begin the piece until I have a sense of the form that I'm trying to make. You know, I always say to the students I teach, you would never think of building a house by just laying a brick somewhere and then laying another brick. You would really think about, well what are you planning?
So once I have a sense of the form, even if it's very general, then I can really dive into the piece. And I also kind of give myself the option of deciding where in the piece to begin. As in like, sometimes if the middle feels really like, “Okay, I know what the middle is,” then I'll go for it, rather than really feeling like, “Okay, I have to begin from bar one.” [laughs] If I know what the end is, because I generally don't know what the beginning or the end is, but I know where the middle is. So I've also kind of learned to give myself that kind of permission to just jump in wherever feels like I could really begin the process in a kind of productive and enthusiastic way.
And so yeah, that's the, I suppose the general practice, the way my practice generally kind of evolves through a piece. So I kind of know that I'm in the happy stage and next week and the week after going to be really tough. But hopefully then the next weeks will be worth it, in a way. [laughs]
Melissa Smey:
Ok well, that's a really good “stay tuned” cliffhanger for listeners. What's going to happen? Who can say? But you have to stay tuned to find out! Well, Ann, this has been wonderful, a wonderful start. And I'm delighted that we're working together, so thank you for making the time.
Ann Cleare:
Yeah, thank you, Melissa. Looking forward to this adventure.
[MUSIC - "RATES OF EXTINCTION" BY WANG LU]
Melissa Smey:
Our next composer is Wang Lu. Lu is a composer and pianist, and she came to the United States from China for graduate school at Columbia University when she was in her early twenties. She’s funny, smart, thoughtful, and someone you just want to sit and talk with. Her insights into music are so meaningful, and I wanted an opportunity to hear more from her about her creative practice. Lu's piece for piano, Rates of Extinction, was included in her 2019 Miller Theatre Composer Portrait.
[MUSIC CONT. - "RATES OF EXTINCTION" BY WANG LU]
It begins in a beautiful contemplative way. There's no clearly defined rhythm or sense of propulsion. As the piece slowly unfolds, the different layers are meant to evoke the heart rates of different animals that recently went extinct.
[MUSIC CONT. - "RATES OF EXTINCTION" BY WANG LU]
This piece, like much of her music, takes listeners on a journey. Lu is writing for pianist Vicky Chow and percussionist Russell Greenberg.
Here’s the first of Lu’s audio diaries.
Wang Lu:
I’m walking outside and that’s often how I start a piece. It’s really interesting when a composer starts a piece. Where the first idea is coming from — for me, always it’s an experience I lived. Probably will not end up being in the piece, but that’s a familiar and more interior starting point.
Melissa Smey:
We already know how you like to start a piece – you walk. Can you tell me more about how that ties into your creative process?
Wang Lu:
I like to take walks and I used to assume everyone liked to take a walk. And then I realized, actually in America, a lot of places are not walkable. It is very natural just to. I guess it's a bodily movement to help me think. And I also don’t listen to headphones, or anything when I’m walking.
I’m also very curious about process and the method we use. And how that all affects the result of our work. Yesterday, I when was talking to my daughter I realized when I ask her, “2+2= what?” in Chinese she gets it, but when I ask her, “3+3= what?” in English, she said 9. It’s really funny, I have the same kind of feeling when I sketch my ideas in English or Chinese, I could have completely different ideas. Or outside of language, if I sketch an idea with graphics and colors, or voice memos, those ideas can also be very unrelated and unpredictable. I find that really fascinating.
Melissa Smey:
Is walking just a way for you to think, or is it also something more, like a guiding force as music is forming in your mind?
Wang Lu:
In terms of like, you know, it's a guiding force? I agree. But in many ways, the best work can come out of a creative mind – in my experience, is when the mind is more relaxed. The mind is not, you know, trying to snap to the grid of the purpose of this next 5 minutes and next 15 minutes. So for me, in order to get to the state of being kind of spontaneous and free, walking is very helpful.
Melissa Smey:
Mm-hmm. Well, so let's take a step back and can you tell me, how would you describe your creative process?
Wang Lu:
When I think about the most painful process is when I was still a student at the conservatory. You know, I started the conservatory when I was in high school, age 15, which means every week I have a composition lesson. And then for that lesson I have to bring something new. So as the date gets closer, you have more pressure of producing something. It’s very painful. And usually the night before you’re like, “Oh, do I have something really worth showing to this professor, and do I have reasons to explain?” So when you ask about the process, the first thing that came to my mind is this kind of like, a week as a pattern. You know, a weekly reoccurring pressure of, okay, you have to produce this, you have to produce a certain amount every week.
And compared to that, I think I'm very fortunate now. I don't have anything I have to report, anyone I have to report to. Like every week, I'm not going to produce this page or that. So the process really varies, which is also something I've been trying to challenge myself with, is the process. So when I choose, a project, I see the potential of breaking myself out of my existing pattern.
So I see myself because I'm trained as a pianist, so I see my creative process. You know, I take a walk, you know, I sit at the piano, I spend time with the instrument I'm familiar with. So in order to create, keep pushing a boundary, as we say, I think the process has to be broken. The process had to be reinvented. How do I start without, you know, repeating the same beginning of the actions? And the action directs the mind.
Melissa Smey:
Something that you'd said about the kind of challenge or pressure of having to write a new piece every week and having that deadline looming – I wonder, is this project where we're going to check in every week for six weeks – I hope this is not a source of stress for you. I hope it doesn't bring back bad memories of the process of having to turn in something every week to your professors when you were at the conservatory.
Wang Lu:
Hey, you know, it didn't really occur to me until we started this conversation. After you asked the question – like, this feels very familiar! Okay, that's where – no, it's not a bad memory. It is, you know, now looking back, every week, you’re turning something new, not a new piece. And, often your professor will say, “No, that's not a good idea.” “No, that's very derivative.” But now I don't have that. But, you know, those kinds of process really train your muscle, and gives you a kind of mentality that when we're trying things as a creative artist, we're not trying to make it “right”. We're basically trying all the “wrong” possibilities, all the mistakes, because, you know, 10 times out of 10, your professor would say, “That is not great,” which is so true because you're not writing your greatest piece at that age and all that. So that was a good experience. Then right now, every week we have this conversation. I really love the audio diary idea.
Melissa Smey:
Mm, I do, too. Say more about that.
Wang Lu:
If we don't put ourselves into this thoughtfulness, we miss it. And composers need that kind of reminder because we don't really separate work from life. [laugh] I was thinking, when should I put record? When should I pause, and should I rehearse this? What am I rehearsing? There's not even a subject. It's very interesting, you know, and makes me very aware, even more aware of my own decision making.
Melissa Smey:
Mmhmm, well so can you tell us a little bit about the diary that you shared when you were at the Chinese hair salon? Can you tell us a little bit about that one?
Wang Lu:
Yeah. It's been months. I've been cutting my own bangs in these times. I was just… So I went there,
[AUDIO DIARY – HAIR SALON FIELD RECORDING]
and then this guy was playing his Hong Kong pop music from the nineties. It was raining. I was sitting there and there [were] razors shaving another customer. And I was like, “Wow, this is a time travel capsule or something.” You know, as we're doing this project now – all the walks, you know, you walk through life, sometimes just a smell of something or snippets of a sound would totally induce a whole memory, you know? But it's through a different filter.
Melissa Smey:
Mm-hmm. So kind of sonic nostalgia. Well, so can you tell me also a little bit about the diary you recorded called “Piano Night Rain Walk?”
[AUDIO DIARY – PIANO NIGHT RAIN WALK]
Wang Lu:
I just put those words down very quickly. Um, I started to watch those night walk videos on YouTube during the pandemic.
[NIGHT WALK SOUND EFFECTS]
I found those videos you watch, they're 4K high quality, and they're just a single camera moving through a city, often at night, when it rains, or you know, there are people in the street. It's mesmerizing. There's this groove, right? But it's not just the pacing of the step, but this unstoppable motion of moving forward, but you just go along with it; you trust this journey. So I thought about that and I started playing on the piano.
[AUDIO DIARY CONT. – PIANO NIGHT RAIN WALK]
In the back of my mind was all those walks I kind of virtually took during the pandemic.
Melissa Smey:
Hmm. I love that. Well, so I want to change topics just a little bit, only a little bit, though, and think about, there's often misconceptions about how composers think or how composers work. And one of our goals in making this podcast was to, you know, offer composers an opportunity to tell people about how they work and to share some insights into how they think. And so, I would like you to explore that a little bit for me.
Wang Lu:
I’ll tell you something, my mother is a retired doctor, so she doesn't understand fully what I do. She cannot associate what I do with pop music she's into, or propaganda music she listened to when she was a kid. She asks about when I'm going to win the next Oscar. [laughs]
So, how people think about like how composers work – it's just so unpredictable! I think some composers – we all have tools, and some composers have very good tool boxes, and you can tell. They open the drawers and it's very organized – how pictures are used, how shapes are used, the forms, and what's effective. Maybe they're very good at writing for voice. Maybe they're really great to make the orchestra sound fantastic.
To me, the interesting part is to tell a story. Music is abstract. I mean, it's a dead end. You are not going to tell a story because if you want to tell a story, just say it in words. But I say to tell a story, it's rather – it's very honest and personal because I started to think about a story. So when I started to think about this piece for you, I didn't think about the piano, but I did think about those videos I watched. But when I was watching those videos, I was not waiting for Melissa to call me to write this piece. [laughs] So that is very interesting, right? Talking about process. I love those walks. I want to share my reaction and my appreciation to that because that's becoming a part of who I am through the past two years. So the process started before you get any commission. We're collecting life experience. We have to be very sensitive to human interaction, so the process for me is not the toolbox. It's to find the expression and the story.
Melissa Smey:
Lu, thank you. I think this is a good place for us to end this week.
[MUSIC – “MILAGROSA” BY MIGUEL ZENÓN]
Melissa Smey:
Our next composer is Miguel Zenón. Miguel is a composer, bandleader, and saxophonist, born and raised in Puerto Rico. He's a MacArthur and Guggenheim fellow with multiple Grammy nominations. There’s so much to discover in Miguel’s music. It’s propulsive, melodic, rhythmic, and it immediately grabs your attention. Let's listen to some of the first movement of Miguel's Yo Soy La Tradición, a collection of eight works he wrote for alto saxophone and string quartet.
[MUSIC CONT. – “MILAGROSA” BY MIGUEL ZENÓN]
His creative practice embodies the seeming contradictions of tradition and innovation.
[MUSIC CONT. – “MILAGROSA” BY MIGUEL ZENÓN]
He's created music with his quartet for over 20 years. We've worked with him on Miller’s jazz series for nearly a decade. He's someone I've wanted to commission for a long time. I'm so curious to hear what he creates for this project. Miguel is writing a piece for jazz guitarist, Miles Okazaki and pianist Matt Mitchell.
Hello Miguel, welcome to the show!
Miguel Zenón:
Thanks for inviting me.
Melissa Smey:
It’s a pleasure. Well, so you've already made a start, which is amazing. And before we dive into the details, I would love to ask you about how you feel about beginnings in general. And I'm especially interested to know like, what you are like and what your headspace is like at the start of a project.
Miguel Zenón:
I mean, obviously, it's a little different every time. My process, though, is kind of similar. Before I start writing any music or get to any point where I'm actually getting into the music itself, I try to sort of identify things that are concrete and elements that will be able to make the process a little easier. So I tend to avoid relying a lot on just, you know, sitting at the piano and waiting for things to come. That kind of process for me is not super productive. I sort of want to have a semi-clear vision of the road ahead, so I do a lot of work before the work.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah. That makes sense. And I'm curious, kind of your first step with this project, having listened to your audio diaries, is that you reached out to the musicians and checking in with them about pieces that they like or maybe some of their own work. Anything surprising? Did they send you anything that you hadn't expected?
Miguel Zenón:
Well, I think in Matt's case, he's pretty well versed in chamber music and a lot of piano music that's a little more modern stuff. So there was one piece…
[MUSIC – “PIANO SONATA” BY ELLIOTT CARTER]
He mentioned this Elliott Carter piece that I didn't know about.
[MUSIC CONT. – “PIANO SONATA” BY ELLIOTT CARTER]
This is sort of a piece that was sort of on the verge of like, you know, Elliott Carter before going totally into the more atonal kind of space. But I remember listening to it and saying, “Okay, yeah, I can see how this could be something that lives in…” At points, it almost sounded like a jazz piece.
[MUSIC CONT.– “PIANO SONATA” BY ELLIOTT CARTER]
The one thing I feel is really important is – like, a lot of times if I'm writing music and I'm kind of grinding through it – once I see the form, for me, the piece is done. It’s over. I'm like, “Okay, so this is done. I just need to write it.” But, like, that’s important for me.
Melissa Smey:
The second diary that you shared had a recording of one of your initial ideas, and it was this beautiful series of chords.
Miguel Zenón:
So, an initial idea that came up was to sort of build a series of chords not from a tonal perspective but more from an intervallic thing. Kind of going from things that are a little darker and have a more atonal personality, to something that’s a little more tonal, and kind of going back and forth. So it’s a series of 11 chords that sort of rotate, and the idea is to have them eventual modulate and mutate into things that are maybe a little more linear and less harmonic, so…
[plays chord progression on keyboard]
Melissa Smey:
Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? Can you tell us a little bit about what that is – I know it's early — and what that might be? If that's possible to say.
Miguel Zenón:
Like I said, I like to start with something that's a little more concrete.
[AUDIO DIARY CONT. – PIANO CHORDS]
For this project specifically, I was trying to find a place that was very concrete. So I started looking at the dates for these meetings, and sort of breaking those dates into very specific things. Like, you know, first, January 20-something, 11th or something; I don't remember what the numbers were – and kind of put them in this row. And then from that row I sort of delineated intervals and then chords [laughs].
Melissa Smey:
And so did that--that connected into the sonorities that you made that – like, so there's a connection there.
Miguel Zenón:
Yeah
Melissa Smey:
Oh, I love that.
Miguel Zenón:
Yeah. And this is something that I've done in the past. Sometimes, it'll end up being nothing because I just won't like the way it sounds. But in this case, I feel like it had something there that that could work both in a practical way and in a super crunchy, non-practical way.
Melissa Smey:
I love that. Well, okay, so then here's something interesting. Some of the unique aspects of this commission is that you're making a piece for a podcast, and you have a short amount of time to do it. Also, you're going to share your creative process in real time, and I know for many composers that can be a little unusual. Like, it's not normally the case that you would have an audio diary documenting the creation of a new piece or talking to somebody every week. And so, as we're at the outset of the project, how is that feeling for you?
Miguel Zenón:
No, it's definitely unusual. I mean, it's not unusual to have to share at some point, but it's usually done way after the fact. The process for me is usually pretty different when I have a deadline, like anybody else. But definitely writing for a deadline, it puts me in a different space compositionally. And if I was writing the same piece and I didn't have a deadline, it would probably be a totally different piece. And also, even for me, I'm saying to myself, “So at this point in time I want to be this far ahead. “
Melissa Smey:
Well, and you know, something that's so interesting about your practice is that you are an incredibly busy, internationally touring musician, and a composer, and an educator. And so, I'm curious – are there added pressures for you in that regard? Because, you know, you're here where you are now. And you know, next week and in two weeks, you're going to be in another country. Does that factor in? How does that factor in? It must. How does it factor in?
Miguel Zenón:
Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, it factors in for everything. To be honest, it’s not super ideal. I wish I could just be doing it at home with my piano and my setup. But like I said, I plan ahead, and I consider all the different variables and, everything that I need to be doing versus the time that I want to spend doing this. You know, if I have a sound check, I might get to the sound check an hour earlier, and maybe work a little bit and just, you know, just make it work within your schedule.
Melissa Smey:
Wow. And so, then if you can zoom out, how would you describe, how would you describe your creative practice in the broadest terms?
Miguel Zenón:
Yeah. I remember when I started writing music, of course, when we start writing music, you try to emulate things that you like and try to sound like the music that you like. I think what really helped me find more direction was this idea of like, you know, writing music sort of based on a specific source or based on research. Once I started doing that, the process became a little easier because it was like, okay, so now I know something that I can do that sort of works in terms of like, I feel comfortable doing it.
This idea of finding your place as a composer – I mean, I started writing music kind of late, probably when I was in graduate school. Before that, I really didn't feel like it's something I wanted to do. I just kind of wanted to learn how to play like Charlie Parker [laughs] and all my heroes. But I think something that did it around that time was this idea of like looking at my own music, music from Puerto Rico, and my own roots and trying to learn more about that so that I could use it as a platform to start writing some of the things that I was hearing, and coming from the jazz side and coming from chamber music, classical music side, which, a lot of it had to do with the fact that it kind of pushed me into writing.
It kind of felt good right away. Like, I feel like I'm not cheating, you know, like I'm really going and doing the work. Going and taking things that are directly from the source and putting them in the music.
Melissa Smey:
An authenticity there. That makes a lot of sense.
Miguel Zenón:
And, and a lot of times I like to work with people that I know well, but also that know each other well.
Melissa Smey:
Yes.
Miguel Zenón:
Because I feel that, you know, it really helps the process, it helps the music, it makes everything easier. So I started to thinking about Miles and Matt because I know them really well. We've been doing a lot of stuff together recently, and also, they each play together all the time. So that was the first thing, just picking the musicians. And then once I did that, then, like I said, asking them about pieces.
So doing a bunch of pre-stuff before writing the music. For me, that's the key. If I had to delineate a process, that's probably the most important part of it. Because once I start writing, then I'm just kind of looking at my toolbox and saying, “Okay, so this is kind of what I have.” I like to take my time writing. I'm not a fast writer at all. So, even though this seems like a short time, I feel like it's enough that I can put in the time.
Another thing about the process that I would say – it might be a little unusual, but for me it really works. I use notation software a lot to compose because it's really important for me to hear stuff back, even as I'm working into the piece. And then when that feels good, then I keep going.
Melissa Smey:
Good. Well, Miguel, I think that's a good place for us topause for today, but this was so fun. I'm excited. I cannot wait to hear what comes next. I love the date basis for the intervals. It's amazing.
Miguel Zenón:
Well, we'll see. We'll see how they sound.
Melissa Smey:
It's going to sound great.
That’s it for this episode. If you enjoy this podcast, please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And even better, leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It really helps the show.
Mission: Commission is a production of Miller Theatre at Columbia University.
Major support for Mission: Commission is provided by the Francis Goelet Charitable Lead Trusts. Support for Miller Theatre is provided by the New York State Council on the Arts and the Howard Gilman Foundation.
Additional support is provided by the National Endowment for the Arts. Support for contemporary music at Miller Theatre is provided by the Aaron Copland Fund for Music and the Amphion Foundation.
This episode was produced by Golda Arthur and me, with Adrienne Stortz, Lauren Cognetti, and Taylor Riccio. Erick Gomez is our sound designer and engineer.
This episode featured audio excerpts of pieces written by Ann Cleare, Wang Lu, and Miguel Zenón.
Visit missioncommissionpodcast.com for a full listing of pieces, performers, and recordings included in this and every episode.
Thanks for listening.
