Transcript - S3 Ep6: Final Measures
Intro:
This is Mission: Commission [intro]
Melissa Smey:
This is Mission: Commission, a podcast where we demystify the process of how classical music gets made. I'm your host, Melissa Smey, and I'm the artistic director of Miller Theatre at Columbia University in New York City.
And on this last episode, we've reached the end of our six weeks with the composers. This is also the final season of the series, and it's been quite a journey. Something I’ve really loved about it is the opportunity to create nine vibrant new works of music and pieces that will live on beyond this podcast. It's also been a wonderful joy to reach all of you in all 50 states and dozens of countries. So if you've loved being on this journey as much as we have, please leave us a rating and a review and tell us what you liked about the show. We'd love to hear from you.
Over the course of this season, I hope we've been able to demystify the creative process of our composers in a way that will really illuminate their final pieces. You can listen to all three pieces at the end of this episode.
So let's dive right in and start with Ann Cleare. Here's a clip from Ann's audio diary.
Ann Cleare:
[singing and humming with metronome]
Still refining. And to do that, I sit with the metronome, with a keyboard in front of me, and I do a lot of humming. Not because the humming really is going to sound like the piano music I've written, it's going to sound a lot different. And I'm really not a singer by any stretch of the imagination. But I do find for myself to make sound and really hear the piece in my head, it helps for me to actually make sound myself and imagine sound happening in time.
Melissa Smey:
Well, hello, Ann.
Ann Cleare:
Hi, Melissa.
Melissa Smey:
Welcome to week six.
Ann Cleare:
We're here.
Melissa Smey:
We've arrived at our last conversation together for the podcast.
Ann Cleare:
I know. To have this conversation every week, it's become almost like, I don't know, this point in the week that the work has revolved around as well. It's really helped me, I suppose, build the piece and think about how it's progressed over time. And so it's going to be funny next week to not have any conversation. I'm going to feel a bit like, where's my support team? [laughs]
Melissa Smey:
Oh, that's nice to hear. Well, I mean, we're always available, [laughs] the ongoing hotline. Maybe it's too early to look back on the process for this particular piece, but if you were going to reflect on the past six weeks, five weeks a little bit and talk about some important inflection points or the process more generally, what would you want to share about that?
Ann Cleare:
I think one of my big fears coming into this process was that I just wouldn't find an idea in the time we have, [laughs] which to be honest has happened before, that I can't settle on a direction for a piece and I can't get it done on time. And I think that's the fear of a lot of composers. When you agree to do a project, it's exciting, but you're also-- you have a sense, okay, I can kind of imagine what it might be--but also to actually get into the making of it is very different and all kinds of problems arise, and sometimes the whole idea can just crumble and you're like, "Okay, that's not an idea." [laughs]
And so I was very afraid that something like that might happen, especially when we're documenting the process like this. [laughs] Because as much I would like to share the difficulties of making a piece with as many people as possible, I also didn't really want to have a total breakdown about a piece. [laughs]
So I think with this piece, even early on in the process, I think around week two, I really quickly came to this idea of working with the tree and the idea of life above the tree and under the tree and how that can relate to the two pianos. And that place and that idea has really guided the process in a way that has just grown in kind of life and possibility. So kind of coming upon the idea early on in the process and that kind of keeping me quite grounded and focused, I'm really grateful for that and that that happened to happen within the time we've been working in.
And I think too, I suppose for my practice in general, I also really wanted to, in that time, think about how my practice could kind of expand. And that's where a lot of the field recording that we've talked about came in. And also thinking about, I suppose, how the music can be used in a way beyond the concert hall or can kind of come into other ways that people can interact with it. For me, that's really interesting to go somewhere and just turn up the volume and really hear how alive it is. And I would really love for other people to have the ability to do that, to hear how alive the world is around them. Then they could hear why certain materials are what becomes important in my kind of musical material too.
[MUSIC – “GRAVITY DREAMS II” by ANN CLEARE]
So future pieces will also involve, I suppose, writing about a certain place or location that has some kind of significance to me. So I guess I'm thinking about all of those elements. I'm such a kind of explorer and wanderer, and I could happily do that forever. But actually what I like about making pieces too is in the end making a decision. It feels good to actually make some decisions because I could, yeah, I would happily just wander into infinity really in terms of ideas. [laughs]
Melissa Smey:
Well, that's a good place to segue into what kinds of decisions you're making now for the new piece. What stage are you at?
Ann Cleare:
Yeah, I'm trying to work out the ending in a way. It's funny, it's almost like, I suppose, in... It's going to be maybe about a seven-minute piece. So in some ways, it's like preparing the piece for the ending on all parts, but from the beginning onwards too so that the pacing feels right. It is so hard because really at the moment, I'm the only person in the whole world who can kind of hear it, in a way. I'm starting to send drafts to the performers to look at, but at the same time, I think we'll really have to talk more about the sounds practically together, maybe on Zoom, in rehearsal, for them to really start hearing it the way I'm hearing it as well. Just to work on the subtleties of different timbres and so on.
Before I listen to it as myself, I try to listen to it as different people, which sounds I know a bit kind of like, well, it's not possible, but I really try to listen to it almost like imagining different people that might engage with the piece, whether that's someone who, for instance, comes to Miller Theatre concerts a lot, or someone who might know my music already, what's there for them, in a way. And then I also then think about the listener who has maybe never been to anything I've ever composed or has never even been maybe at a performance of contemporary music or even classical music. Because I think a lot of the material I use, the timbres and textures, I think often people hear them and they're like, "What is that?"
[MUSIC CONT. – “GRAVITY DREAMS II” by ANN CLEARE]
And I understand how people can be a bit bewildered by how is that instrument even making that sound?
[MUSIC CONT. – “GRAVITY DREAMS II” by ANN CLEARE]
But I really don't want the music to be all about music that's kind of unusual sounds because it's also music that's trying to express something and trying to bring everything together and give the piece its time and space, that putting myself in those different listening positions can at least give me some amount of objectivity. [laughs]
Melissa Smey:
And then does it guide your decision-making or does it reinforce, yes, I've got this exactly right, this is good? Or do you make changes when you think about it from those different points of view?
Ann Cleare:
I do. I make changes. And ideally, what I try to get to is a point where every listener, so that's me, the listener who knows me, the listener who doesn't know me where we all agree. For me, it's the only way I can really edit the piece from as many different angles as I can think of as one person, really.
Melissa Smey:
Well, so in a couple of weeks we'll be getting together with Laura and Julia to make the recording. When you're looking ahead, what's coming next for this piece? What's the kind of last big push for you for the piece?
Ann Cleare:
Yeah, I guess, I will start to rehearse more, hopefully with the musicians, go through sections of the piece more. I mean, we've been exchanging sound clips and so on. But yeah, I think we'll go into that in more detail probably in different sections and kind of then start to join the piece. Because I think I'm trying at the moment to predict as best I can, how much time a lot of these ricochet sounds that I've written.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah.
Ann Cleare:
I think we've talked about where they're almost like gravity points and they activate the whole piano and it becomes this huge almost air in a way. So I want those moments to be really big and rich and spacious. I'll have to work on it with Laura and Julia to see how much time is needed there. I still think, even though, as I said, I'm listening a lot in terms of pacing, I still think that will need more work as I put it together with Laura and Julia.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah, no, and it'll be a different experience in the studio when we're recording it for the podcast. And then this time we're going to have an amazing live premiere in Miller Theatre of the pieces. And obviously, the pianos will be different, the instruments will be different, but also the acoustic setting will be very different. And so in a way, the piece is a little bit different each time it will be performed.
Ann Cleare:
Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa Smey:
Ann, thank you so much for joining us in this season of Mission: Commission.
Ann Cleare:
Thank you, Melissa. It's been great. It's been such a journey. It has. And really, really unique journey. I've never done anything like this before. So thanks to you and the team. It's been a real privilege and a lot of fun as well.
[MUSIC CONT. – “GRAVITY DREAMS II” by ANN CLEARE]
Melissa Smey:
Onto our next composer, Wang Lu.
Wang Lu:
Oh my God, this is the last one. Can you believe?
Melissa Smey:
I can't. It's week six. Welcome to week six. I can't believe it's the last one.
Wang Lu:
[laughs] Yeah.
Melissa Smey:
Well, so how has this week been for you?
Wang Lu:
Good. Yeah, good. I think this week I wrote more notes, like actual musical notes on page. And I had a lot more clear ideas where the piece is going. For instance, since week four, I suddenly had more ideas for piano. So it's very strange. So I wrote mostly for the piano, although I was in touch with Russell more about which mallets and the tam-tam, and if one foot is pressing down the vibraphone pedal, the other foot can kick the kick drum or no, while you do this almglocken and vibraphone and glockenspiel… I know at the very beginning, remember I said, I just want one percussion instrument.
Melissa Smey:
I do remember that.
Wang Lu:
[laughs] And I was like...
Melissa Smey:
Not how it turned out though, is it?
Wang Lu:
Ah, right? [laughs] That's when I was like, "Oh, this is what I planned." But this week, yes, I think it's not as I still try to figure out what it is. I know I just need to put more time in, into writing.
[MUSIC – “ONWARD, WAYWARD” by WANG LU]
Right now, it seems like I could make this piano part an independent piece.
Melissa Smey:
Independent of the percussion?
Wang Lu:
Yeah. I could make this piece as a duet, but this piano part can be taken out as a piece.
Melissa Smey:
Ooh, I like that. Have you ever done that before?
Wang Lu:
I've never done that before. [laughs] Yeah, it's interesting because the piano part has all the drives, and then of the percussion I liked it how offset. And sometimes they support each other, sometimes they go their own ways. But also, I've been still taking tabla lessons, I'm serious about this. And I'm training myself--my teacher's training me of separating memorization and left hand, right hand, and the open and the closed and different odd number cycles of tala, they’re the mantra you read. And maybe that has something to do, like even subconsciously for me to have things work together mechanically, but have a divide. There definitely is a listening of and coordinating between the two players, but they do have this freedom.
[MUSIC CONT.– “ONWARD, WAYWARD” by WANG LU]
Melissa Smey:
Would you imagine that perhaps the piece would be played twice at the same time? So once that you would hear both parts together and then that you would hear the piano part separately? Have you thought that far ahead?
Wang Lu:
No, but I think that is a brilliant suggestion. I didn't think about that. Thank you. Yeah. The idea of a slow motion, the halo of resonance came, that could be a percussion, could be piano, could be combination at the beginning. And at week four, I had more ideas of moving out of pandemic and how time is fleeting. And the idea when I worked through the piano part and worked to almost have the percussion go along with the piano, and I realize we're on different pacing is interesting.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah.
Wang Lu:
Right?
Melissa Smey:
Yeah.
Wang Lu:
But not one kind of pace, not like a pianist goes de-de-de-de-de-de-de-de-de, and then the percussion goes da-da-da and da on loop. No. It's kind of like always variations on the kind of groove. Yeah, the rhythm is important.
Melissa Smey:
So Lu, something I'm curious, thinking back over our process, I wonder if you could tell us a bit about whether taking part in Mission: Commission has been transformative for you, and in what ways?
Wang Lu:
First of all, I didn't think anyone would be interested in such detail and private information of how things are made by an artist, by a composer. And that's really encouraging. And also it sets a timeline and a kind of practice for me to come back every week. And it's always every week to talk to musically intelligent and well-plugged-in people like you, but you're not a composer. And we're talking to our audience about what happened in the way to tell a story, but also not to shy away from techniques.
Melissa Smey:
Yes.
Wang Lu:
Those are really things I've never practiced before. And also I think it's really transformative is that as an artist, you're more open to share very intimate failures and [laughs] uncertainty. The timeline is compressed and make you almost like reading a novel or watching a film to live another person's life. You know? But it's your own lived in a more intensified way. Yeah.
We think about these things but haphazardly to talk about. But we don't really have an opportunity to dig into this. And it helps to psychologically understand what art and the process of making art does to ourselves and what it means to communicate. What it means to make other people feel like you're genuinely talking to them about things without obscuring or setting up a wall saying, "Oh, you need to earn your credential to climb over the wall, and to jump over, and to get hurt, and then you can understand what I'm talking about."
Melissa Smey:
No, and that idea of a wall, that kind of feels like there's a wall around classical music, and the expectation of what you need to know in order to be able to appreciate it and enjoy it. 100% about what we're about at Miller is tearing down those walls and making everyone feel welcome. And I think that your ability to peel back the layers and reveal some of the mystery is invaluable for listeners. Because at the end of the day, we're all people and we all have complicated lives, [laughs] and I think the ability to make a connection with people helps us to make a connection then with the music.
Wang Lu:
Yeah. You're doing such a fantastic job. I mean, I think this experience really is fantastic. It's a beginning for me to think about my practice in a lot more effective way.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah. Well, we so appreciate you being so generous with all that you have shared and in creating the piece and spending time with us. It's really been a delight.
Wang Lu:
Thank you. It's a real pleasure. And I already miss our meetings.
[MUSIC CONT.– “ONWARD, WAYWARD” by WANG LU]
Melissa Smey:
And now, onto our third composer, Miguel Zenón. Miguel has finished his piece. He's already sent in his music and will soon head to the studio to record with the musicians.
Well, hello, Miguel.
Miguel Zenón:
Hey, how's it going?
Melissa Smey:
It's going great. This is an exciting week. We're at the end of the journey, our journey together, and your piece is finished, so hooray.
Miguel Zenón:
[laughs] Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited. We made it. [laughs]
Melissa Smey:
Yeah, it's fun. And so I'm curious, maybe could you tell us how you would describe the new piece?
Miguel Zenón:
I guess if I had to [laughs] describe it musically, I mean, it's built on this series of chords that we talked about initially, and then my idea was for it to start on those chords kind of slow and out of time, and eventually kind of lead into a section that was a little more rhythmic and eventually have something that was the centerpiece of the piece that was definitely very, very rhythmic. There's a spot in the middle of the piece where there's a section for improvisation, so it's something that's kind of being open and when they're going to be going back and forth. And that kind of brings us back to a reprise of the main theme that we are at the top and then a little afterthought at the end.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah. Well, so I'm curious, looking back over the six-week journey, maybe what was the toughest point or the toughest stage for you?
Miguel Zenón:
Getting started was definitely the toughest for me. The instrumentation was very specific. There was a deadline, and I was trying to…speaking to the musicians, and I started with those chords, but it often happens that you start with something and then that, it just really goes nowhere.
So I think that stage was definitely where when I felt like I could be just spending a lot of time on this and it could go nowhere, or it could really be the thing. So I think once I got past that point of saying, okay, so I can make this work with this melody, and then this evolving into the other thing, then after that, it's got to flow nicely. But I was stuck on those chords for the first few days for sure.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah. And I'm curious, so how do you know? So is it something in your gut tells you or your intuition tells you? Or is it the process of working it out musically and then you see what could come from it and then you know, okay, yes, these are the building blocks and this is going to work?
Miguel Zenón:
Yeah, it's hard to know. I mean, I think for me, most of the time I'm thinking if I was out there listening, would this work for me? Would I react to this?
Melissa Smey:
Yeah.
Miguel Zenón:
And if the answer is yes, then I'd probably proceed. A lot of times also when I'm working, in this case, those chords came out of those numbers and stuff like that, which it's not necessarily a musical source, it's something that you kind of create a system. And those things, they could work or not.
Also, in this case too, once I found a melody that worked with the chords and sounded kind of lyrical, I was kind singing the melody and thought, so ok, I could connect with the melody in a different way than I could connect with the chords. So I think once I had that, then I was like, "Okay, so this kind of works."
Melissa Smey:
Nice. Well, so something else that we talked about in the beginning, the idea that we were going to talk every week in real time as you were making the piece, and you had said that that was unusual for you. And you took a leap with us, which I'm really glad that you did. In what ways would you say that it shaped the piece or it kind of shaped your process?
Miguel Zenón:
It was very different. I mean, it didn't feel intrusive at all, to be honest. And I think if anything it, I mean, I felt like it kind of helped. Especially looking back now, it definitely helped just kind of-- push things forward.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah.
Miguel Zenón:
Because I felt like we were talking about it and breaking things down and that helped me see a clearer path. So I can see it. When I explain it, I'm like, "Okay, so this is making sense."
Melissa Smey:
Yeah.
Miguel Zenón:
[laughs] I'm explaining and it started making sense to me.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah. Any surprises for you?
Miguel Zenón:
It definitely came together quicker than usual [laughs] for me.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah.
Miguel Zenón:
Even though I was traveling and I wasn't home the whole time, and I felt like once I got started, it just kind of flowed.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah. That's great. Well, so is there anything that you would like to say about the title for the piece? It's called Layer Upon Layer.
Miguel Zenón:
The way the piece came together with these chords and then putting the melody on top, and then those chords kind of modulating, and then from that modulation kind of creating. And I felt like it was kind of all built on the same thing.
[MUSIC – “LAYER UPON LAYER” BY MIGUEL ZENÓN]
Even some of the things that happened rhythmically about a minute or two into the piece when it starts moving, and all that stuff is based on things that I think all that's rhythmic layers.
[MUSIC CONT. – “LAYER UPON LAYER” BY MIGUEL ZENÓN]
Where you have a pulse of subdivision and then you organize those subdivisions to move on and create tension and forward motion. So it just kind of seemed like a practical [laughs] title.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah, it definitely seems to fit. And so I was curious to hear how you would describe it.
Miguel Zenón:
Yeah.
Melissa Smey:
Well, so what happens next for you for the piece?
Miguel Zenón:
So the first thing I did once I finished it, is I sent it to the musicians, to Matt and Miles, even before I sent it to you guys because I wanted to make sure the score was ready in case I needed to make some changes or something.
Melissa Smey:
Sure.
Miguel Zenón:
And they gave me the okay. I mean, I think there's some things, at least in Miles' case, that he wants to maybe reformat some of the layout, so for page turns and stuff like that, which is totally understandable.
For me, the thing that makes me feel good about that, and that I sort of finished it on the early side is that I give them more time to work on it before we record it. And probably before that we'll get together the three of us and play through it. And then go to the studio, record it, and then perform it later on in June. So I'm excited. I feel almost, it's like my part is done, but it's like the piece is not really done until we play it. You know what I mean?
Melissa Smey:
Yes, absolutely. And to hear it, it'll be interesting. What I'm curious to hear is the transition from hearing you talk about it and then hearing it on MIDI, and then to really be able to hear the instruments live together in a room.
Miguel Zenón:
Yeah. That's always an interesting transition.
Melissa Smey:
Yeah. And then the interplay between the two musicians of course also will be really interesting. Yeah, it's an exciting moment.
Miguel Zenón:
Yeah. We're just getting started.
[MUSIC CONT. – “LAYER UPON LAYER” BY MIGUEL ZENÓN]
Melissa Smey:
Thank you, Miguel, for joining us on this season of Mission: Commission.
Miguel Zenón:
Thank you. It's really been my pleasure. Thanks for inviting me. It's been a lot of fun.
Melissa Smey:
That's it for the episode and for the third and final season of Mission: Commission.
Up next, you can finally hear the pieces written by the composers in their entirety. Thanks for listening.
Mission: Commission is a production of Miller Theatre at Columbia University. Major support for Mission: Commission is provided by the Francis Goelet Charitable Lead Trust. Support for Miller Theatre is provided by the New York State Council on the Arts and the Howard Gilman Foundation. Additional support is provided by the National Endowment for the Arts. Support for contemporary music at Miller Theatre is provided by the Aaron Copland Fund for Music, and the Amphion Foundation.
This episode was produced by Golda Arthur and me, with Adrienne Stortz, Lauren Cognetti, and Taylor Riccio. Erick Gomez is our sound designer and engineer. This episode featured audio excerpts of pieces written by Ann Cleare, Wang Lu, and Miguel Zenón.
Visit missioncommissionpodcast.com for a full listing of pieces, performers, and recordings included in this and every episode. Thanks for listening.
